Wisdom, Common Sense & Outright Lies: L. Ray Smith - Exposing Those Who Contradict

Friday, August 05, 2005

L. Ray Smith - Exposing Those Who Contradict - A few Bible Truths for a friday morning

L. Ray Smith - Exposing Those Who Contradict

74 Comments:

Anonymous said...: L. Ray Smith....... dont you find it odd, as i myself did, that everything Mr. Smith says is backed up by scripture after scripture after scripture. just the way I like it. Christians just cannot, and will not except the fact that christ is the savior of all men....; 4:20 PM
Anonymous said...: THE BIBLE IS REALLY VERY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND, EVEN BEFORE GOD REMOVES THE VEIL FROM PEOPLES EYES..... ALL HAVE SINNED...JESUS PAID THE PRICE FOR ALL SIN... SEE YALL IN HEAVEN.. YES EVEN THE BAPTIST TOO..; 9:26 AM
Anonymous said...: Everyone will be saved because God wills it to be so. Not many believe this to be true but fortunatley it does not matter what they think, they will come to the understanding of the TRUTH eventually because God will become all in all.; 2:46 PM
Anonymous said...: MR. SMITH I AM A MINISTER I PASTOR A PENECOSTAL CHURCH IN CHICAGO FOR MANY YEARS BUT I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED THE BIBLE THE WAY YOU DO. I AM SO GLAD THAT I RANACROSS YOUR WEBSIGHT EVERY DAY THAT I GET OFF WORK I JUST CANT WAIT TO READ YOUR COMENTS ON THE WORD OF GOD PLEASE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK WE NEED THIS KIND OF TEACHING IN ALL THE WORLD.; 7:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Yipee, then I can just live my life as I want to live it, I do not need to follow Christ, I am SAVED. I can Rape and molest and drink and whore just as I like.; 1:38 PM
Anonymous said...: I guess I'm going to "hell", because Mr. Smith sounds like he has a screw loose to me. Justifying contradictions with the same text that is in question just doesn't make sense. Oh well...it's a faith issue right? When does that excuse run thin? Never? Keep telling yourself that.; 2:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Here's a simple test. Everyone should read the bible asking God to reveal the truth and really want to know it, the truth, being willing to change even years after allegedly knowing God and being a professed Christian. Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults. Psalm 19:12 Then let's compare notes. The problem many Christians have is coming to God with preconceived and convenient beliefs of which they won't let go. It is hard but necessary to approach all of God's word this way.; 8:19 PM
Anonymous said...: To anonymous Yipee:
Why must you sin now just because God will delay judgement? Eventually God will call and save you in spite of your selfishness? Seek Him now.
If we who are called ahead of time, are to be the vanguard of God's gov't on earth, that is a great responsibility and rare privilege. If the rest, those called later, will be resurrected to be tested in a future judgement, then that is God's choice. It remains a fair and just way of judging & correcting people. More on this point if you wish. Peace, Bob; 10:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Folks,

The tradition of other religions, Hindu, Islam, etc. is suspect in our eyes, why not the traditions of the Orthodox christian church? The Bible really does not teach that we will rise to the third heaven upon death. It does teach that God will set up a government here on earth with His beloved son Jesus and with the saints of God managing and teaching God's way of life for the benefit of all, for 1000 years of peace and prosperity. May that day come soon.
old indiana bob; 10:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Anonymous,
You stated that you are a Pentecostal minister in Chicago, Ill. You stated that
"I HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED THE BIBLE THE WAY YOU DO.." and that you can't wait "TO READ YOUR COMENTS ON THE WORD OF GOD" and that Ray should "PLEASE KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK WE NEED THIS KIND OF TEACHING IN ALL THE WORLD." But dear sir, being a Pentecostal minister, surely you believe in the Holy Trinity, as written in the Bible. Are you aware that Ray, this man to whom you give such acclaim, denies the existence of the Trinity? Are you also aware that he denies that God is also a person, as expressed the Word. Three persons in one triune God-head, to be exact. Perhaps you should read a bit more closely to Ray's beliefs? His beliefs directly contradict with biblical teaching. And I must also comment on Ray's complaint against Pastor John Hagee. He complains that Pastor Hagee should not use the term "forever and ever and ever" because the bible only states it twice. He accuses Pastor Hagee of being Scripturally inaccurate based on this premise of the number of times he states the word, "forever". It is my belief that God does not care how many times Mr. Hagee mentions the word, "forever". After having read Ray's articles, I am of the belief that he severely misrepresents the Word of God. He could be likened to a false prophet, leading the sheep astray by false doctrine. He teaches against the Trinity, one of our core beliefs as Christians. The evidence is in his false and heretical teachings. Check your bible closely. See the contradictions between Ray's misinterpretation and biblical truth. Need I say more?; 5:23 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear L Ray Smith,
What you are saying makes better sense than anything I have ever seen. I think you have eyes to see and ears to hear, and those less gifted....and a great knack for explaining it!
A lot of supposedly religious people are bad mouthing our God!!!How great to know that our Lord isn't a world class torturer, and I have a new look at my savior.
I had a buddy that I loved greatly. He was a bit of a party boy who died of a car accident after three tours in Vietnam. I was always there at party time! Now I was guilty of never mentioning my savior to him, and it weighed heavily on my conscience.I have spent many hours in heart wrenching agony for that failure. After your writings, it is as if a heavy stone has been removed from my chest. He was a RAY, too!
I read the scripture that was with each statement, a remarkable inspired writing gift!
Thank you, L Ray, Paul T.; 11:34 PM
Anonymous said...: for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

Narrow is the way and few....

Not everyone who says.....

But the anointing will teach you all things.....amen to you mr. smith...the truth is the truth, no matter what the masses think or who they are....; 10:37 PM
Anonymous said...: L.ray smith...... im sorry to say is wrong on a lot of topics,from what i can see. at first glance he apears to be a very prolific theologin, and perhaps he would be if he would concentrate more on scripture,and theological concordances pertaining to scripture,
and spend less time quoting the encyclopedea britanica!!!!!; 3:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Of course so many people will agree with mr smith.
his idea of no hell, no eternal punishment, is polliticaly
correct, its comfortable.
the idea that we can do whatever we want, whatever feels good , and not be punished, sounds great.
but think about it, for every action theres a reaction,
there is no good without a bad, there is no write without a wrong,and there is no heaven without a hell.
commonsense tells us this.
if there wasnt a hell, then what did christ have to die to save us from? think about it.
my 12 year old son understands this concept.
why cant mr smith.; 3:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Well, darn! I'd like a pair of those rose colored glasses Mr. Smith is wearing...NOT!
Unfortunately, Mr. Smith is a sign of the times. It sounds good to say that everyone will go to heaven. It sounds great that we don't need to tythe. I mean why not just pick out all the good stuff from the Bible and only use that part? It's all or nothing Mr. Smith. I sure wouldn't want to be in your shoes at the seat of judgement. For those quick to believe the garbage Mr. Smith is spouting, try finding a TRUE minister of God and actually doing the work and studying God's word. Taking the easy way out usually does lead you down the wrong path.; 11:41 AM
Anonymous said...: It amazes me how many people miss the point on L. Ray Smiths teaching. I used to be a member of a very conserative Church of Christ. You know, we're the ones who think everyone is going to hell but us. However, I dismissed all my previous predijuces and considered what he was teaching. Sure enough, just as I thought, everyone IS going to Hell, including me and my loved ones. You see, I believed my whole life Hell was a place of torment. Hell has always been and will always be the grave. My problem has always been to let someone else tell me what the scriptures mean. No longer will I listen to those who cannot give scriptural evidence to their interpration of the scriptures. L. Ray provides an abundance of scripture to support his interpration. He is not being mean spirited but simply trying to get us to think on or own. Try thinking outside traditional religion and come to your own understanding of the truth. Do as the Bereans did, study to show yourself approved. Don't take any mans word for it just because they seemingly are more educated than you. It is ok to disagree with anyone as long as you do it in a respectable way. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I look forward to seeing the opinions of others in this venue.; 9:28 PM
Anonymous said...: You don't have to be a Trinitarian to be a Pentecostal Minister. I have never believed in the Trinity, but of the One true God, and I am Pentecostal.; 8:18 PM
Anonymous said...: To the person who says "Find a TRUE minister of God"

I doubt he understand the utter futility of such a task. When trying to do so you will be following men.

The issue is studying scripture and asking God to make it real in your life. Mr Smith has one point that is hard to escape.

I do see people relishing the punishment of evil people for eternity. They do not really care, they are only Glad they can find in the bible that god will punish those they think they are better than. Truth hurts.; 9:49 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous said
try finding a TRUE minister of God and actually doing the work

Please define TRUE. Based on what supposition? or what theology?

The only true minister is the Holy Spirit. Remember Jesus's teaching about calling one Rabbi, Teacher etc. and end off you have but one teacher....? cant quote Ch & Vs but is in Matt somewhere.

I think Ray has the guts to refute incorrect teachings based on the word and addresses issues normally avoided by mainstream clergy. It's been enlightening to read his articles, I do not necessarily agree with everything he says, but much of what he writes makes sense.

The fact that he claims to have no formal theology training makes him better qualified than most Theologians who must have attended some seminary of sorts and if those teachings there were tainted, the untruth continues on??? Most just teach what they were taught!

What if everything we were taught was wrong? Not saying it was! Here is just another view/revelation. Who are we to just denounce it outright. The bible clearly tells us to test teachings by the Word.

The Trinity issue is not important to me whether they are One Person or Three Persons. (I still have not read his article on this)

Fact is Jesus sits at the right hand of God and Jesus prayed to his Father in Heaven doesn't really matter. Jesus is the appropriation for our sin, not the Father and not the Holy Spirit. Who do you pray to Jesus, Father, Holy Spirit?

Ray acknowledges that Jesus is the name by whom ALL should be saved, can't see that being contradicting the Word or him being demon possessed, Jesus states no man can come to the Father but by Me and again no-one can come to Jesus except the Father draws him (Paraphrasing)

What about all those who died never hearing the name of Jesus? The world is bigger than just the USA. What about China, Iran, Pakistan Afghanistan and many more countries where you can be killed for just trying to preach Christianity?

Are all these doomed to an eternal Barbecue? I don't think so!

If they are, then there must be another path to Heaven we do not know about? That means all paths lead to Rome therefore all religions lead to God, sounds a bit "New Age", NWO, One World Church etc. to me

Nowhere does Ray imply that you can just do your thing if you have already heard the Good News.

HIs free-will views are interesting. His analogy of Paul on the road to Damascus illustrates this well.

It's not by works but by Grace lest any man should boast, guess that levelled the playing fields.

And we wonder why so many reject Christianity; an "un-saved" friend once said to me, he cannot see any difference between US and him so why bother, his dad was a lay preacher. Makes you wonder?

We are too much in each others face about what each of us believe, in James it states we should each work out our own salvation with fear and trembling yet we purport only confusion and division to others in the world.

Maybe we need to go through fires of purging, I certainly cannot claim I have led an exemplary Christian life, can you?

We all fall short of the mark, that's why Jesus had to die for us. The focus should be on Jesus and His saving grace not our belief models.

Jesus taught about the Father, told us of the comforter, (Holy Spirit) but only in some translations does it appear like this

Passage 1 John 5:7:

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (remember the Word became flesh so in my mind that is Jesus the Son)

Once a cell leader checked this passage in my bible to see if I had the right translation but could never tell me why, the last part
and these three are one. does not appear in all translations or so I'm told.

Like I said earlier, the trinity is not really an issue to me! Jesus is, Father is and Comforter are equally important whether they are three or one. Or am I supposed to believe all 3 are 1, if so, pray tell me why?

If I only believed in 2 of the three, then maybe someone could have an argument?

I have biblcal and belief opinions that were in part shaped by the Holy Spirit and the council of men. The Holy Spirit bit still works for me but the latter does not.; 4:23 AM
Anonymous said...: Maybe if mr smith starts tithing, and giving first fruits as well as sowing, God will make him owner of the biggest roofing company in the world.
You sound like an old school Jehovah witness.
You have failed to impress me, and I am not even a roofer, just a humble tither living in abundance,overflow, enjoying life to the full.

Jesus says "Let thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth."
In heaven I will be rich , as I am rich on earth.
Overflow and abundance, debt-free,healthy, prosperous in mind body and soul in the name of Jesus Christ my Saviour and Redeemer.

He who the Son has made free,is free indeed.; 3:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Does anyone understand what they read these days ? I think NOT judging by some of the Comments made.
For Heavens sake people - read,absorb, and understand what is written before attacking your keyboards and spewing out TRASH.
For example :
..........................
EXTRACT
Anonymous said...
Of course so many people will agree with mr smith.
his idea of no hell, no eternal punishment, is polliticaly
correct, its comfortable.
the idea that we can do whatever we want, whatever feels good , and not be punished, sounds great.
but think about it, for every action theres a reaction,
there is no good without a bad, there is no write without a wrong,and there is no heaven without a hell.
commonsense tells us this.
if there wasnt a hell, then what did christ have to die to save us from? think about it.
my 12 year old son understands this concept.
why cant mr smith.
.............................

What utter trash !!!!!
Try reading your Bible ... you may soon realise why Christ died on the cross for us

PS. Unplug your keyboard until you understand what you have read.Then ponder on what you want to say before you expose others to your opinion; 12:48 PM
Hope said...: I am not leaving a comment to cause dissention. I am a layman woodworker and I believe in Jesus.
I can only tell of what Christ has done in my life. I surrendered to the Lord several years ago, upon surrendering, I was filled with the Holy Spirit. So powerful was this experience, that scripture became alive to me, prayer an overwhelming importance, and fellowship, lifting up the name of Jesus. Each day walking in the friendship of the Lord is exciting beyond words. The Lord places people on my heart to pray for, and I see answers to these prayers.
The stirring I felt as I read some of Mr. Smith's comments was the same as when confronted by the false doctrine of the JW's.
Mr. Smith you are trivializing our Saviours'death on a Cross. All people are called, few are chosen.
The Lord does the chosing, and has mercy on who ever he likes. Who are we to question God's infinite wisdom, His righteousness or mercy.
In order to be saved we must experience God's mercy. By grace are we saved. If everyone goes to heaven, what are we saved from?
There are many references to gnashing of teeth, and thrown in to the fiery furnace. If all are saved because Jesus paid the price for all sin, why the urgency of the workers? The winepress of God's wrath in Revelations 14:19 states plainly that many are thrown in. My heart goes out to those that are being deceived. I pray that those being misguided, search for the truth in the scriptures after praying for the Holy Spirit to reveal it. It is not in arrogance that I post this, but by the Love of Jesus Christ, Those who call upon His name will be saved. There are mysteries that are yet to be revealed. When we see the Lord Jesus we will be like Him. I long for the day that He say's Well done good and faithful servant. Blessings; 12:28 PM
Anonymous said...: People,let's not be sheep anymore.One thing I can say is Mr.Smith has taken the time and effort to probe and dissect the scriptures,which not many of us have done.Is he crazy,a nutjob,getting ahead of himself?Ask yourself this.Are you eager and willing to learn God's word that much,and improve yourself spiritually not to man's standards as the majority of us do,but to the standard required from God's word and He's Holy Spirit?Of course not right now,we entertain too much past baggage,worry about what others think of us,we don't find it easy and convenient to change our mindset easily,and of course,we're too self absorbed,hence some of the comments I've seen here.Please people,if you look closer,and remove Ray,it boils down to God's word,and another means of understanding Him better.Ray is like everyone else,except he's willing to learn the truth,which is good.If you can't handle truth,then find someone else who'll lie to you in order to feel better about yourself.Just realize this,that whatever place and process in life you experience now,is all God's will,whether you understand it or not.Like me,you're also learning,and someday will break free of your narrow-mindedness.; 5:44 AM
Anonymous said...: All I can say is,thank God for uplifting men like Ray to where he is and what he understands to be truth.I think he's retort is based on what others fail to believe,or just don't see.I'd do the same if the Lord blessed me with this understanding.Everyone is entitled to their beliefs,as surely God has pre-ordained our walk in life to even discuss what's on this blog.Not one can say he/she controls their own destiny,not even one.Accept the fact that you will make choices in life,think thoughts etc,but not one of the situations that cause you to do so is created by yourself.You/I/Everyone is in control of nothing that we face or occurs.We just make decisions.And even then we are caused to go in the direction God wants us to.Sure,god makes us think we're in control sometimes,but remember,our Almighty God operates every single thing that happens,accept it or not.We will face things in life we have no control of.Who can honestly say they're in control of everything all the time?Only an Almighty God can.Do we now understand the enormity of God's power on situations and lives?Still think we're caused ourselves to discuss this subject on this blog all on our own?It's hard to accept,or fathom that God sets every course of everything that exists,down to the very ant you'll step on when walking over the lawn,as well as the conflicting opinions we have here.You and I can do nothing without God having already planned our very steps.Not even satan as it was always believed can do anything on he's own,no matter what movie's will have you believe.Isn't that just refreshing?Praise be to the Most High,and may we all submit to His plan and will for our lives on His time when He so chooses.; 10:20 AM
Unknown said...: nowhere in the old testament is there reference to eternal suffering for mankind.Not on sentence,not one paragraph.Why is that???Yet many are wulling to accept a few incorrect translations in the new testament to condemn man to a eternal torture beyond anything a sain person could emagine...Only a Mad psyco of the worst evil could come up with sucha thing and my G-d and my redeemer are neither!!!I have listened to hellfire crap all my life and it sickens me to know there are sooo many evil and hatefull people trying to pull you down into the muck of self worship and deceit...I have not read anything to date that is not scripural in l ray smiths study of the word. i knew well before i ever heard of l ray that 99.7 % of the christian community througout the world are pagan in nature.Christ said many decievers would come in his name... the churdh of today fits that bill...selah!!!; 3:09 PM
Anonymous said...: It's funny how all the people who agree with Mr. Smith's comments are the first to call people ignorant or closed minded. The ones who believe in hell are the ones who write politely. Jesus talked in Parables which means a story was always compared to something in real life. Lazarus, parable or not, was compared to a horrible place of exsitence. Torture is not mentioned in the Bible, but either is cocaine, but we know that is wrong. All i hear from non-hell believers is the same stuff from the mormons, JW's, New Age movements.....your translation is wrong. Well, the KJV was not the only publication made at the time. There were many languages that the bible was translated too. And yep, they all say there is a place of suffering for non-believers. Read all the books of John, it doesn't get any clearer than that. People think we want to see people go to hell and we have parties when our neighbors die. If there is no hel than the great commission means nothing and we should bring all the missionaries home. Anyone who does not believe in punishment for sin, is not saved, and will find out soon if there is a hell or not.; 3:33 PM
Anonymous said...: I love this forums with such sound christian doctrine!! Yea right! What does this sound like to you: "For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-6." Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........I don't know what does that mean!!! You idiots who follow fools such as L Ray Smith.; 5:03 PM
Anonymous said...: To answer Clark's statement that no where does it mention hell in the old testament. Hell is called many different thigns in the Bible, such as Gehenna,the pit, a dungeon, but in the old testament it usually was just compared to fire. So Clark, here are just a few spots in the old testament that speak of hell; Passage Deuteronomy 32:22:

22 For a fire has been kindled by my wrath,
one that burns to the realm of death [a] below.
It will devour the earth and its harvests
and set afire the foundations of the mountains.

What does that sound like?

Passage Psalm 140:9-10:

9 Let the heads of those who surround me
be covered with the trouble their lips have caused.

10 Let burning coals fall upon them;
may they be thrown into the fire,
into miry pits, never to rise.

What does that sound like?

All i hear is that a gracious loving God could never do such a thing. Let me ask all of you a question; which side of Christianity would the world accept? One that says there is no hell and everyone will get saved not matter what. Or the truth of God that said in John 3:33-36 33The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. 34For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God[a] gives the Spirit without limit. 35The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. 36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

No where does it say anything about eternal death, so then we cannot even bring into play the "wrong translation" theory that all non-hell believers use. This is clear as day! The world would neve accept this message which proves it is from God!! Get your minds right people!; 5:14 PM
Anonymous said...: I have just started reading L ray Smith writtings on various subjects and can honestly say many of the things He is brinning out I have noticed over the many years I've studided the word of God myself. He backs up His asurtions with lots of sound scriptures. I think it's worth serious concederation. thanks....gene; 4:08 PM
Anonymous said...: Instead of pointing fingers and accusing Mr. Ray Smith of being a false prophet let’s fall back on the word of God and stay within it. In our attempts to point Mr. Smith out as a being a false prophet we are all falling into the trap that has been set for ALL followers of Christ since way back; To fight and squabble amongst themselves. This is clearly a ploy of Satan and by observing some of the comments against Smith’s teachings it seems to be working.

Unfortunately we will never be able to prove Mr. Smith as being a false prophet, since ALL of his arguments is scripturally strong. Notice on his website however how he challenges people to DISPROVE his scripturally correct statements over and over. He knows his statements cannot be disproved and he is using THAT as his weapon to lead us away from the truth. Bear in mind that the war of the times is not a war against our flesh but war against our “spirit” Simpler said; we are engaged in mind games, directed from the spirit world.
Mr. Smith constantly challenges people to DISPROVE his statements or challenges them to PROVE him wrong. He is subtly quite rude most of the times as well as can be seen from the below example taken from his website.

Diana: Go ahead--say away! Prove ONE STATEMENT OF MINE to be unscriptural. Go ahead. DO IT!
You don't have to say a lot or waste your time, just prove any one of my statement to be unscriptural and I will remove it from the site immediately!
So now it is on YOUR SHOULDERS to expose my heresy if you can, because if you don't it apparently will keep deceiving people. Is that what you WANT? Well then, show me where my paper is Scriptural (notice carefully that I say "Scripturally). I am not concerned about nor interested in you OPINIONS. Stick with the Scriptures. Tell you what, Diana, Show me one place in the entirety of the Bible where a "Christian" ever tithed to a church, and I will give you ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS! I wouldn't want you to do all this work for nothing.

I’m sorry, but Mr. Smith is definitely not behaving like a Christian should.

No, Mr. Smith is definitely not a false prophet as such he much worse than that.
Let me put it this way; there’s nothing more dangerous than Satan on a pulpit!; 2:23 PM
Jeremy said...: Unfortunately.. not only do we constantly bicker about who is right when it comes to what the words in the bible mean, we also manage to show how stupid we all are by saying we know how a christian should behave. ITS AN INDIVIDUAL PACT BETWEEN ONESELF AND GOD YOU DOOFUS'S!!! There's no possible way to expect people to behave in way YOU think is christian because they think YOU are the ones who are un-christian like... its a vicious circle non?

Personally, I really appreciate L. Ray's interpretations, as they challenge the standard and stagnant ideas of faith and teaching. I doubt he really considers himself a prophet, and he is clearly pissed off at where christianity is at the moment, and he has a right to be because so many of our christian leaders are just plain wrong, or naive, or simply ignorant.

Jeremy Tapsell; 9:00 AM
Jeremy said...: P.s. if you're a "christian" and you still believe in the devil, and hell, then pfft, you are sooo behind the times! Get with the program; this is the 21st century people! time for a new doctrine that reflects 21st century understanding.

Plus, saying that Ray Smith is heretical you are falling into his trap. He will claim that Jesus was treated the same way, by the church leaders of His 'eon' ^__^

Just act how Jesus acted and your mind will be at peace. Jesus accepted everyone right? Well, accept Mr Smith AND anyone he attacks as being equally correct, and you will be satisfied. If quantum physics has taught us anything it is that contradictions can exist side by side, and because we don't have the details, we can only accept the fact.; 9:17 AM
Anonymous said...: Greetings to all in the name of my God, Yaweh Elohim,
My name is Sharky and i need to inform all of you what has been given to me by Him who is eternal.
Obey his commandments first of all. Love the lord your god with all your hearts,mind and body and you know the next. read the red letters of Christ teachings and believe in it. He is the word and in the beggining was the word and the word was with God. When you believe you are given His strenght(spirit) to help us defeat the powers that oppose us and God will for all of us. And that is? To have His righteousness as stated(ongoing Love and concern for others) period!
now if we are to enter the God family we must do as Him.
So, if we are to Love all as christ the word has stated, why do we all disagree and go on about who is right and who is wrong. He, Yaweh elohim did state that we will not be able to understand His ways, so why do we?
We need to except Him and His Spirit which is his power will endow us to become part like Him. Lets all agree on one very simple think, but I will tell you it is so simple that we have a very hard time doing it. And that is to be like Him.
I could care less what you or ray Smith go on about. Does it really matter if conform to teachings of men or of Yaweh Elohim?
He will have His spirit( which is spirit not flesh guide usto Him)
I personally feel that an all Loving God, who would become flesh and blood and take our sins to the cross would not torture any of HIS creation for not knowing Him( others who have never heard)or even the ones who in this Life has rejected Him. I also feel very close to Him as I have been DOA'ed twice and have had 10 concusions almost all bones broken and my foot reattached and have spinal bifida and loss of hearing. Have had my past 2 wifes die and loss of a child and brother and sister from drugs and 2 of my best friends dead also. Why am I still walking, running and not an invalid> Yaweh Elohim my God.
I am the miracle that he uses to reach others. Because! I have an ongoing Love for mankind and concern for all others. He has planted himself in my heart and has given me the wisdom of dicernment.
I am an artist- contractor plumber and designer and hHe has blessed me with many gifts, but to not glorify myself with these skills, but to glorify Him. He will at the end of the age seperate the goats from the sheep.
Prepare the road of salvation for ones self then go and show his Love to all even your enemies.
He who has no sin cast the first stone. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. There is not one among us who can say for sure that what awaits us is a sure thing. No one knows whos name is written in the book of life, no not one only the father yaweh elohim. This goes out to all in LOVE. I Love all mankind and am willing to lay my life down for you all, how about you/
If you want to hear more I am waiting at sharky54@gmail.com may Yaweh Elohim guide you in His word.
Sharkman; 4:22 PM
Anonymous said...: I have not seen anybody prove Ray Smith wrong in his teachings. And for those who say that the trinity is a central biblical belief, please show me scriptures of this teaching. For the person who used the scripture about angels being cast into hell to wait for judgment, wouldn't "hell" have to be THE JUDGMENT according to your unscriptural "eternal hell" doctrine"? Uhhhhhh! If God teaches us to not hate our enemies, not to curse them, but to pray and forgive them, wouldn't the "eternal hell" issue make Him a hypocrite? Are we greater than God? Did we decide on our own that we should get saved or was it the Holy Spirit? So, then why do we condemn those who have not yet come to Christ? To see people burning in hell forever: Is that more satisfying to us or to God? If earthly parents punish their children, will it last forever? NOOOO! It lasts UNTIL THEY LEARN TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT. So then, who is more loving, our earthly parents or God? Judgments of God in every form possible were intended to let all people LEARN TO DO RIGHT(See Isaiah 26:9). The lake of fire is judgment, not eternal torture, UNTIL the stubborn ones learn. Why add brimstone to fire if the fire is already scorching people as you all claim. Ask any Greek or any scholar of brimstone: Brimstone is a PURIFYING AGENT. What needs to be purified? The reason why most of you cannot answer thius question is because in the beginning of the SPIRITUAL, SYMBOLIC book of Revelation from start to finish, Christ tells us that it is only,"those who have (spirtual) ears" that will "HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS TO THE CHURCHES". Everything in Revelation is a symbolism to a spiritual truth. In Rev.20:14, why is DEATH and HELL cast into this lake of fire? Hmmm, well, well, well, so the lake of fire is NOT HELL as we see. All these are cast into the lake of fire and BRIMSTONE with the rest of the unbelievers to be chastened and then PURIFIED including Satan and his crew, believe it or not. Does God look at the outside of a person? NOOOOO. He focuses on the INSIDE(Rev.2:23, I Samuel 16:7,Matthew 15:18,19, 1 Corinthians 4:5). Once the inside is thoroughly burned and cleaned out and then purified, each man's praise will come from God and his spirit will BE SAVED(See I Corinthians 3:11-15, 4:5). Why then are we a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD(kings and priests)to our God if people are going to burn in hell forever? Do we think we're just going to some paradise heaven to enjoy the sunset only? We are the priests who are responsible under our Savior to win the whole world and even those who will be cast into the SPIRITUAL lake of fire to be purified by the CONSUMING FIRE which and who is GOD!!! Then we will understand Revelation 22:2,3. In this NEW JERUSALEM, there is the tree of life bearing leaves for THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS!! Yes, this is the place many of you call "heaven". Healing from what? Well, going through the lake of fire will have probably left INTERNAL BRUISES. Notice in the same passage that thereafter is no more CURSE, and looking at v.15 of Rev.22, those who are just outside the gates who are not entirely purified will stay out there until they are totally cleansed. Now what was so hard about this spiritual teaching? Don't just take my word for it, study the scriptures. L. Ray Smith is going into some of the deep, deep things of God to which the Spirit is leading him into. This is what the Spirit does in those who are chosen to not only understand small portions of the DEEP TRUTHS of God, but to help those of us who are struggling as well. Thank you, Lord, for Ray Smith. In the name sake of our Lord, we need to take caution of how we treat this chosen vessel. Christ did say to his chosen that "they will put you out of the synagogues(churches)and the time is coming that whosoever kills you will think he is doing God service, and these things they will do to you BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN ME NOR MY FATHER". Take heed, those of you who have kicked Ray out of your "churches" because he does not believe in your unscriptural "trinity" nor your unscriptural "new covenant tithing". You are being noted by Christ himself....And for the one who said that Ray is not behaving like a Christian, are you any better than he is by ridiculing him like that? So, if one can't be sarcastic to get the point across, what do you say of Christ's sarcasm of the Pharisees throughout the gospels? NONE of you all have been able to prove this man to be false, WHY? Because where the truth shines, the darkness can never prevail against its light. Let the truth set you free. Jesus is the LIGHT and He is the TRUTH! Man-made doctrines and different church denominations will not save us. I want to give us all something to think about....A false prophet will lie to attract many people and a true prophet will tell the truth and lose many people. A false prophet deceives many people in these last days to blind them to the real truths of God and a true prophet tells the truth to ALLOW MANY TO SEE the real truths of God. A false prophet is concerned with winning people for himself and the business opportunity of a multi-membership and this is evidenced by ones who say that God blessed them with mansions, expensive cars when really it was because they conned poor people into giving them 10%tithes. A true prophet is concerned with winning people for God at the expense of losing friends, family and even "church" members to tell the truth with no room for compromise, and they do not sell the Word of God nor the truth for money nor even the Holy Spirit for money like Simon the sorcerer tried to do in Acts8:14-23. Come on, friends. Let us pray and stop idling our time in the enemy's business of unfruitful gossip. WE ARE KINGS AND PRIESTS, NOT GOSSIPS AND BUSYBODIES. Ray is not the only one left. There are still thousands upon thousands who have not bowed down to the paganistic traditions of church denominations like the Egyptian, Babylonian "trinity", "christmas", and "easter". Ray, keep fighting the good fight of faith.
RICKY, ALWAYS FOR CHRIST; 4:44 AM
Anonymous said...: Lester my boy, in the immortal lyrics of Phil Collins comes to mind: `In the Air Tonight` - please Google his lyrics for my hidden meaning...

It is a shame that you left the flock so early and took (i.e. plagiarized) with you 90% of the Truth. No you serve a DIFFERENT master now don't you? Your smooth words are arguably leading many into the apostasy - Daniel 11:32

Isn't it odd how even the Devil can quote scripture adroitly. Look at Matthew 4:5 where Satan says to Jesus: "...for it is written..." wow sound familiar Lester!? Yes even the Devil can appear as an angel of light can't he (2 Cor. 11:14)?

And ahh my dear Mr. Smith there's the rub... The way you defend your new master so well in trying to CHANGE his true original identity. (My sarcasm-->) Oh right God created Satan as evil to help mankind... Satan was never the 'good angel' or covering cherub of the Garden of Eden turned evil (BTW on his own) who deceived the first woman... Oh I guess Eze. 28:11-19 is just another myth huh? (<--sarcasm) Yes, yes, Lucifer (et al) was never his real name... that's way too easy. But you know the Truth don't you?

And what is this foolishness your trying to teach against being a `free moral agent` or as some parrot obtusely w/o understanding: `FREE WILL`. Are you teaching PREDESTINATION? A clearly false Christendom teaching??? Wow so we are all automatons acting out a Divine script started AEONS ago? (Which by the way that Greek word means `age` or `period of existence` or a `very long time` if not `forever`... or just say `system of things`...)

Lester Ray Smith why don't you post your personal bio? Why won't you list a mailing address (even a PO Box)? What's your back story man? Inquiring minds want to know!

I know you don't want people to know the REAL Truth do you? Who you really are and what you used to be? Don't worry your secret is safe with me...

OK folks on your keyboard when I say GO press your HOME key, then CTRL-F keys, then type the words: on a pulpit, then click OK... John (Boanerges) you hit the nail right on the proverbial head brother!

GO!

Boanerges; 8:53 PM
Anonymous said...: L.Ray Smith and the rest of the christian's that follow him i will be praying for you. I am greatly concerned for you all. He is a man that has great knowledge compared to most christian and unless we are all scholars, of course reading his material will make you question and possible change your mind. Dont just accept what he says because its over your head and he shows many quotes from other sources (sources that he doesn't always reference). He has had 60 years to form his false teaching, so why wouldnt it be solid.

Someone said this-

"I have not seen anybody prove Ray Smith wrong in his teachings."

Why? because if you see someone prove him wrong, he has lost, so Why would he put up conversations or emails on his website that shows him loosing, seriously THINK about. Search elsewhere

Here are a couple of websites for starters

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/smithlr01.html

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/smithlr02.html

http://hometown.aol.com/prophetnick77/page58.html

http://www.tektonics.org/qt/smithlr03.html

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/430-l-ray-smith; 6:09 AM
Anonymous said...: ?????????????????????????????????Did someone not say , question everything you HEAR , did someone not get put to death for teaching contrary to the popular opinions of the day . Was someone not accused of being a false prophet and a false messiah , and crucified for this . Is THIS someone not still the talk of the world after THOUSANDS of years .Will men ever accept there is only one God .Will we ever stop talking about ourselves and our opinions and truly seek the TRUTH.Does the bible not tell us the test for a false teacher or priest .Does it not say that we can not go to Jesus unless called by GOD to do so .Should we not Pray for understanding and guidance .
Is it not to our advantage to have people unafraid to question the doctrines being preached today and who urge us to do the same .
??????????????????????????????????
TheBlind1; 11:32 AM
Anonymous said...: Brimstone a purifying agent that a good one ray! LOL

Ray said "I wonder if spiritual brimstone might be used to PURIFY and fumigate people"

well fumigate maybe but this is not the brimstone itself but the sulfur dioxide released from the brimstone and smells like rotten eggs and killes all rodents, bugs etc. This gas killes very quickly so does fire but like mark 9:48 says "where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched" so why should it die with the sulfur dioxide. Well these two things are horrible, i mean who like to sit at home smelling a bottle of rotten egg gas and who wants to be submeged in fire. Why would god make hell a desirable place that is purifying? So we can live a life of sin, and hey its alright well be purified. NO! Thoughout scripture there is warnings after warnings of that sin is destructive and brings death!

And Next to the bleaching part, well to bleach with brimstones required water and nowhere does the bible speak of water and anyway with hell so hot from the fire there would be no water. clothing didnt used to be bleached with brimstone and fire, sorry, good try tho.

Ray also said "Ancient producers described their method of obtaining sulfur from its ore as PURIFICATION BY FIRE"

Well this is true but we arnt talking about the prufication of ore here we are talking about SULFUR and FIRE, he twist and turns everything to fit his theology. Its all these half truths (and there is a lot of them) in Ray's work that we who read his literature need to take notice.

When ray uses 1 Cor. 3:12-13 he tries to merge it with purification of us, but this verse use purification as a symbol to explain to the chruch of the time that the CHURCH will be judged by fire 1 corinthians 3:13 says "the fire will test what sort of work each one has done" So this is a revealing fire for the church and directed to the CHRISTIAN'S OF THE TIME (using purification as symbolism of revealing) not a purification of our sin as individuals and certainly not for non-christians.

Ray refered to the fact that "Physical Properties—Sulfur is TASTELESS and ODORLESS. IT HAS NO ACTION ON THE SKIN" yea yea another ploy to fortify his thoery, mix it with fire and it does burn, (look up sulfur fires) and you will see that it becomes smelly rotten egg gas (a coincidence for use in hell i dont think so).

oh and for the eternity arguement read the above internet site in the previous comment; 4:48 AM
Anonymous said...: wow do you people even read what your thinking with carnal minds in enmity to God? ----John said you cant prove L.Ray wrong because he is scriptually strong. So it says it right there but because you know without a shadow of a doubt what you have been taught by men (who's thoughts are against Gods)John says of course L. Ray is wrong, my pastor tells me so--I think you need to think about what fools you sound like--for my bible tells me so For the wisdom of God of God is foolishness when mixed with the wisdom of men.I challange all of you do the task thats been set before you prove the scripture that L.Ray uses are wrong or even yet find one scripture that say something contridictory to the ones he places before you---for just as through the disobedience of one man many were made sinners(we all agree to the first part we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God but we don't all believe the truly Good News in the second part of that verse)So also thru the obedience of one man the many will be made righteous. Do you believe the bible. Do you believe that Christ died for are sins? Or do rest you salvation on the churches christ who never died but instead maid a journey to hell? Do you trust a church that practices drug use molestation and corruption> Do you really believe your bible when its say any any house divided will not stand is your gods church devided into little factions that have different ways to express one belief. Sounds devidied to me. genises 3:1 and the serpent said unto the woman, ye shall not surely die.My God and bible say jesus died. I will die. you will die. For all of salvation rest on a dead son of man being raised to ife who will be are lamb because he and only will be was and is perfect and sinless. not by his will(father take this cup from me)but his fathers. for God sent his son not to condem the world(tell them there wrong and without of Him they will never measure up)but to save the world thru him(even though none of us deserve all recieve thru grace wich is brought by faith).Everyone has put a price on Gods free Gift.The price-----The one thing that we cant even give to pay the price because have been misled that we are in possesion of spiritual fools gold And so the price you say what price have we place---Why your very own FREE WILL.Heres a little verse for you church and those who believe they have been blessed because of there allegiance to this physical kingdom of mans religion because they worship this christ who DID NOT DIE but instead went to hell and took the keys from saten in a epic battle meditate on this verse and see if you dont start trembling at that coming wrath and judgement on the great whore of babylon for we are told his judgements will start with the church REVELATIONS 18:7 7.how much she hath glorified and lived deliciously,so much torment and sorrow give her:for she saith in her heart,i sit as a queen(the cristian bride of christ),and AM NO WIDOW,and shall see no sorrow(because im going to heaven0.How can this be the church,labeled the whore of babylon A WHORE.Read verse 4 if you dare And i heard another voice from heaven,saying,Come out of her my people,that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye recieve not of her plagues.So where do you think Gods people are?Why would the wolves be anywhere but inside the flock. LEARN TO READ YOUR BIBLE TAKE NO MANS WORDS FOR WHAT IT SAYS OR DOESNT SAY>WE ARE IN THE ENDTIMES AND ALWAYS HAVE BEEN SINCE CHRIST>TURN AND RUN FROM THOSE WHO USE MANY WORDS BUT NO SCRIPTURE>LEARN TO BE AWARE THAT ALL IS NOT WELL AND THERE ARE MANY DECIEVING THAT DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE DOING. FORGIVE THEM FATHER FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO>THANK GOD FOR HIS GRACE FOR HIS CHILDREN.ASK YOUR PASTOR TO SHOW YOU THE EXACT PASSAGE THAT JESUS WENT HELL> HE DIED FOR MY SINS AND YOURS PRAISE GOD HE DIDNT GO TO HELL OR WE ALL BE SCREWED>I'm Duane uleryarvada@aol.com; 7:36 PM
Benny said...: I have recently read some of Mr Smiths writings, and while I am no bible scholar, I can see he uses many scriptures to explain his reasonings. To those who speak against him in this forum I have noticed their counter arguments don't use scripture, and they just repeat doctrines they have heard from the church.
While I am undecided,about the things he has presented, I do give more value to someone who uses scriptures, as opposed to unsubstantiated repaeting of church doctrines. It would help me (and others) if the rebuttals could contain scriptural references and not just what you think.
Regards Benny.; 9:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Here are some truths: There is God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (holy trinity)

Mr. Ray says Jesus spoke only in parables, this is not true. He (Jesus) did speak plainly at times.
John 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, "Lazurus is dead."
John 18:20 Jesus answered them, "I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing."

Mr. Ray also says that people will not go to Hell forever, and that Hell is not a literal place of fire and brimstone. Whether or not people will go to Hell forever is up to God, but Hell is most definitely a "real" place.
Revalation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
So you see, Hell is most definitely a "real" place.

These are just a few "truths" of the Bible that Mr. Ray has either deliberately or unintentionally misinterpreted. I will not go into everything he has erred on, but I will say this:
Jesus told us to be aware of false Christs and teachers. I would recommend that if anyone is intent on learning about Mr. Ray's teachings, be very cautious. Read the Bible, ask God for wisdom to understand, then hear what Mr. Ray says and see if you believe he is accurate. I have already pointed out a few places that he is not, so be very careful if you choose to listen to him.; 1:02 AM
Anonymous said...: I'm going to say a few things here to all of you.

We are all lemmings, driving each other toward the cliff leading to the dangerous fall to death, with the intent to jump off, and hopefully take as many other lemmings with as lemmingly possible. Our belief is that all the lemmings and lemmingdom, save for me and you, are EVIL, and they are driving us toward the cliff and we can't stop them from driving us. So our plan is to grab onto some of these evil lemmings and, with them grabbing onto others, and others grabbing onto others, will all fall together, with US climbing to the top of the heap as they fall, so that when we hit the bottom all the other lemmings will act as our cushion, and we escape, our collective fate unharmed...but as for the other lemmings...well, at least they will provide a acceptable cushion from us falling. When the ordeal is over, we'll raise a short toast to them, and then leave them all behind.

So said one lemming to another lemming. only the first lemming made plans that the second lemming would be at the very bottom of the pile, after the second lemming had done his part, while the first lemming alone would be at the top.

And that is the plan of every lemmming on this planet.

so now what happens when the god of lemmings decides to put a safety net halfway down the chasm, which will effectively save ALL of lemmingdom?

where does that put the spiel, from the first lemming, about using the rest of lemmingdom as a cushion?

Now what happens if the first lemming knew about the safety net? and decided, for his own profit, not to tell about the safety net, and instead told his other lemmings about how bad the chasm would be, and how they needed to be "on top of the heap" as it fell so that they would be spared?

And the other lemmings that heard this lemming, believed HIM, instead of checking over the cliff themselves, to see whether or not there was a safety net?

Oh what rotten lemminga SOME ARE AND WHAT FOOLS other lemmings are.; 8:54 PM
Anonymous said...: Just to add some fun to these rediculous debates. I think Ray smith is trying to make a name for hinself. He attacks men such John Hagge plus other who do not agree with Smith's world view.

Scripture is cleare "By their fruit you will know them" Millions upon millions have got born again from Hagees ministry.

Maybe Smith is not born again and will join those consighned to hell.

For what it is worth.

Jesus is Lord of all
Shaun mcClelland
South Africa
http://itsbrilliantbusiness.com; 2:22 AM
Anonymous said...: Let's look at these and reflect upon them:
GOD not man does the calling
GOD not man does the choosing
GOD not man gives the saving grace
GOD not man gives the faith necessary to believe
GOD has appointed us to Good Works!
GOD consider us his workmanship (achievement)
GOD is the savior of all men

ALL THINGS ARE OF GOD!

---- - - -- -- - - - - - - - -
7 Foundational Truths!

[1] 1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

I never forgot that Scripture. First time I saw that I memorized it and I never forgot it. I never had to look it up again, I knew where it was…1 John 4:14. And also 1 John 4:8 “…for God is love.” Remember these.

[2] 1 Tim 2:4 God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

You’re got to believe that. Maybe you should cut these out and stick them in your Bible or something.

[3] 1 Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living GOD, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those that believe.

Phil 2:13 For it is GOD which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure.

Do you see free will in there any place? Who is it that brings about what is your will and what you will do? GOD!

[4] 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is…NOT WILLING that ANY should perish (well how is He going to keep them from perishing?...), but that all should come to repentance.

Here is a negative thought - "not willing." Now this is the will of God and this is important. God’s will is that no one should perish… no one, not Adolf Hitler, not Osama Bin Laden, no one. But they all have to repent. You say, ‘ well they’re already dead Ray.’ That’s right, but they are coming back in judgment and they have to repent. Why? Because God does not want them to perish.

Now we are going to see what theologians do with these verses and what you can’t ever do with these verse. Because this is Truth, God does not will - He’s not willing - He does not want - He has no such desire - He takes no pleasure in any perishing. But He is going to have them all repent.

[5] Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning (speaking of God), and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure:

What an important verse. Now do you believe it? Can you believe it and will you continue to believe it? If there is anything in God’s Word where He says, this is what I want - this is what I desire - this is one of My pleasures - this is one of the things I’m going to bring about… will it have to be brought about? That’s what God says, “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure.” I WILL do it. I mean you can bring in more Scripture, like the Lord’s prayer.

Luke 11:2 …Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will BE done, as in heaven, so in earth.

"THY WILL BE DONE" see, no ifs ands or maybes. So when you have these people who say, ‘well yeah, God kind of wishes that things would be better, they just are not.’ Nonsense.

[6] 1 John 4:8 He that loves not knows not God (why?...); for God is love.
Very profound statement, it’s the Truth and you’ve got to believe it.

[7] 1 Cor 13:8 Love NEVER FAILS…

You might kill the person who is doing the loving, but the love still isn’t going to fail. "LOVE NEVER FAILS."

How do we know they are true?

Well first of all we read that God’s Word is Truth (John 17:17), and the Scripture is given by inspiration of God (2 Tim. 3:16) and God does not lie (Titus 1:2). So don’t these 7 Scriptures have to be true? Can there be any possible exception that these Scriptures are not true? If any one of these Scriptures is not true, then God is a liar and these Scriptures are not given by inspiration of God. Then whatever God wants and desires will not come to pass. So these Scriptures have to be true!; 7:47 PM
Anonymous said...: PASTER L.REY SMITH, MY NAME IS DAVID ROSARIO, AND I CAN SAY THAT READING YOUR LESSONS ON BIBLICAL SCRIPTURE HAS ELIVATED AND ENLIGHTED ME,YOU ARE A MAN OF TRUE WISBOM, THANK YOU SO MUCH AND I THANK JEHOEVAH FOR YOU. MAY JEHOEVAH CONTINUE TO BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.; 1:00 AM
Anonymous said...: i believe this guy's got some points regarding misinterpretations or probably errors in the Bible (if he is really correct). as the saying goes word passed from tongue to tongue losses its true value. But he shouldn't added so much biased self blah (3x). he should just pointed out errors committed in the bible texts so to get the attention of those who could correct it rather than do his own corrections & interpretations. 'twas too wordy, i had to skip some and didn't cared what i missed. the repeating words just bored me down. yahahawn!

And it is not clear if he is a theologian himself, or some other qualifications to make him a credible bible linguist/authority/scholar. you just can't find anything around the web about him. all i found is his name: L.Ray Smith, and an email address. how could this guy expect someone to believe him when he doesn't make himself fully known? he should allow us to do some background check you know.

for all we know, as he has pointed out satan rules this world, is here, and has always been a liar to confuse us with truth. i hope this guy is not. it gives me the chills! isn't it odd he makes satan not so evil but God's humble servant, but he makes God look like a sadistic father constantly abusing us with trauma, before that kind of father could accept us into his house. the ends justifies the means? is that God? oh, com'on.; 9:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Why do you condem that which is different? I am not saying that anyone is perfect but are you people the same ones going to the jews and beating them for their beliefs? so then why do you care about us that dont belive in hell. I'll tell you why because it means that all of you who hate to sacrifice the things of this world but do it so you can get in to heaven feel like you missed out on something. you shouldfollow god because you want to not because you dont want to go to hell. That is where man failed. you only act right because the man on the pulpit says you have to. if the pope or a priest or rabbi said act horrible and you still go to heaven would you be good? No you would be as rotten as you wanted because you could.In closing just because we dont agree with hell and tithes dont hate us just leave us be; 8:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Z.Smith
I have checked and cross checked eveything Ray says, I heard all of this before from a 90 year old man who studied all his life. Now seeing it again. Just before I found his site I had gone through months of study and came to the same conclusions. You cannot disprove any of it. But religion can be easily disproven evertime. Like simply the word Lucifer- I found the exact interpitaion and its Venus The planet- But thats not all the original text(scrolls) dont have it in there so a myth easily debunked. RAY IS CORRECT.; 8:32 AM
Anonymous said...: How can one possibly think that all of these hell teaching pastors can be right? They are many that Jesus will say, "I never knew you; depart from Me,you who practice lawlessness."
The Pharisees and Sadducee's and the Scribes have not just disappeared. They are still here in the church buildings; their temples made by man; misleading the flock. Yes! they are many with many followers.
It just doesn't seem to me that Ray will fit into the many called, or that group that Jesus will not know.
We that believe The Scriptures and what Ray teaches are very few compared to the many pastors and their followers.
Its the way it is because thats the way God said it would be.It's not your fault. God has chosen those to be blind. God has chosen vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor.Favor in whom He chooses.; 8:15 AM
Anonymous said...: You can NOT accuse Ray of "taking the easy way out" and taking scriptures that he doesn't like right out of the bible! To say that is to not know him very well!
Read more, listen better and you will see it right there in GOD'S WORD.; 6:37 PM
Unknown said...: It is not my obligation to prove wrong what Mr. Smith has challenged everyone with. That being to prove him wrong. It will be proven by the Spirit, and by testing it with the whole Word of God. By even by these few verses of scripture, both Old and New Testament, I believe that the Word itself (Himself, Christ) has already done the work to disprove Mr. Smith's doctrines about select things.

Matthew 7:21-23 not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Luke 13:5, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

2 Chronicles 7:14, "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."

1 John 2:4, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

John 10:27, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."

Hebrews 10:26-31 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1 John 3:4-10 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.; 11:58 PM
Unknown said...: (continued from previous post)

About Tithing...

Leviticus 27:30-33 " 'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD. If a man redeems any of his tithe, he must add a fifth of the value to it. The entire tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod—will be holy to the LORD. He must not pick out the good from the bad or make any substitution. If he does make a substitution, both the animal and its substitute become holy and cannot be redeemed.' "

Malachi 3:6-12 "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed. Ever since the time of your forefathers you have turned away from my decrees and have not kept them. Return to me, and I will return to you," says the LORD Almighty. "But you ask, 'How are we to return?'
"Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, 'How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. You are under a curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it. I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not cast their fruit," says the LORD Almighty. "Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land," says the LORD Almighty.

So should we cast away tithing because it is of the Old Testament Law?...

Matthew 5:17-20 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

There is clearly a distinguishing between reward and punishment...

Jesus himself gave reference to a place of fiery torment...

God The father said plainly that we rob him of tithes and offerings, and that he does not change, so why should He be any different in his thinking today?

Mr. Smith in one of your videos you yourself said according to scripture, Proverbs 8:23-35 ……. I (Wisdom) was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.

Has Wisdom changed His mind about what is wise?

Maybe if you pay your tithes, the devourer will be broken from your life and you will demonstrate that your FAITH in God extends not only to believing Him about His miraculous healing, but also to trusting that He knows best for our lives in the commands that He gives us to obey.

Until you can do that, all i can say is "good luck" with that cancer thing.

I'll pray first that your eyes are opened.; 11:59 PM
Unknown said...: Smith is right. Most people create a God in thier own image.
If a person is compassionate and loving he will create that kind of God.
If a person is mean and vindictive, he will create a hell fire torturing God. These dim wits that create a Hell fire tormenng God, had better be careful that THEY dont go there.; 12:30 PM
Anonymous said...: L Ray Smith flaws are shown when one reads his material with the Spirit of God.

Matthew 4:7 Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

L. Ray Smith does this by asking anyone to post 2 scriptures to proves his statement wrong and in return you will get $2000, then lowered to $1000 in an email, raised back up too $2000 in another email and now presently he will just correct his mistake.

His own readers have pointed out mistakes and get answered Ray HAS changed his VIEWS on this matter and a correction will be made.

Unfortunatly his mind has become more cynical to stress and suffering to the point he calls himself and his followers the elect, altough many scriptures attest to God ONLY KNOWING who are his.

Tough speculation is never incourage in his articles nor the sister forum, Ray speculates on there being a regional flood and Dinosaurs being written about in a book of Job written by a unknown man. Ray trys to bridge the gap of science and Faith by isisting that knowledge and science are one and the same, even though the fact is science is based on testing and Faith can never be self tested.

-Hint once you test Faith it no longer is Faith-

You would think Ray would take into account, a sceintific fact that Dinosaurs and human never co-existed, yet he stretches your mind to think a book written about Job would mention the existance of Dinosaurs, animals that were not discovered til sometime around 1676.

Apart from these, there are many other fallacies of the Spirit L. Ray Smith TEACHES, being that in about well over 95% of the time he calls it his OWN teaching and rarly gives glory and credit that the Holy Spirit/ God are the rightful teacher and origin of Spirit Knowledge.

-notice it is not scientifcal knowledge-; 5:57 PM
Unknown said...: Hi to all.

I have read most of L Ray Smith's papers on his web-site, and for the first time in my life John 8:36 (If then the Son makes you free, you will be truly free) means something to me.

I realized how my beliefs were blaspheming God the Father and our Savior, Jesus Christ. Jesus was sent by His Father to save the world (John 3:17), not from 'hell' as some may believe, but from death (hades/sheol). If the world can not be saved through the work of Christ, then God the Father and Jesus Christ failed! Some people boldly proclaim that God can and will fail without even realizing what they are saying. If the battle is between God and satan for the souls of man, then satan is winning hands down!
"God wants everyone to be saved, but unfortunately He can not do anything for most of mankind." This is absurd! We are not talking about a mickey mouse god here, we are talking about the Creator of all things! ALL things are possible for God!

It really boils down to two questions:
1. Does God want everyone to be saved? (1Tim 2:4)
2. Can God save everyone? (the rest of the bible)

Isa 45:22 "Turn to me now and be saved, people all over the world! I am the only God there is.
Isa 45:23 My promise is true, and it will not be changed. I solemnly promise by all that I am: Everyone will come and kneel before Me and vow to be loyal to Me.

I don't know which honest person can deny this scripture.
'EVERYONE' to me means everyone, no one excluded.

Maybe we should believe the Word of God, instead of trying to adapt the Word of God to our doctrines and beliefs.

May you all find and understand the peace that God's truth has to offer to the whole world.; 6:03 AM
Anonymous said...: The Word of God is not in questioned here, what is in questioned here is l ray smith's teachings

late last year in 2009 l ray smith's had a meeting in Mobile for studying the LIFE in the Word of God. But then promotes and places in front of his assembly this doc-of-kung-fu charlatan, for no other purpose but to promote and sell his self made vitamins, the guy is not even an md for crying out loud. And may be indirectly involved in a MURDER case.

This doc-of-kung-fu profits out of death. totaly opposite of the LIFE of the word of God.

Just google Dr. Jimmy Steger and see what a crock company l ray smith keeps, and before you go on and say Jesus ate with siners, which is true. l ray smith is no Jesus in mine eye nor thy heart.

Even Judas who was a disciple of Jesus would never garner such credibility as l ray smith places on Dr kung-fu Steger.

obviously the people would read this blog are not stupid, here you do the math and see what adds up.

Dr Steger at 2009 Conference: http://bible-truths.com/video/DrSteger.wmv

2 Peter 2:3

King James Bible
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

nternational Standard Version
In their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. The ancient verdict against them is still in force, and their destruction is not delayed.

In that 2009 mobile assembly, the audiance is the merchandise l ray smith has pawned off to this snake doctor for the sole purpose of promoting his vitamin sales.......

http://blog.al.com/live/2009/12/doctor_used_by_eddie_smith_was.html

MOBILE, Ala. -- To bolster a claim that he is too sick to be tried on murder-for-hire charges next week, outdoorsman Edmond H. "Eddie" Smith IV has offered a letter from his doctor.

But prosecutors have countered that the author of the letter is no medical doctor at all, and may be indirectly involved in the case.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1050220

It seems like more and more hunting shows are popping up showing hunters harvesting animals on ranches with high fences. Personally I detest the idea of hunting in such a place and would a never feel proud of harvesting an animal that is basically farm livestock.

http://www.bestdeerhuntohio.com/index.html

Here's the place they hunt at. I wonder if you get to pet the deer before you shoot it? That show is so pathetic, I love watching the out of shape rich guys blasting pet deer and thinking they are big hunters. I'll stick to hunting my public land deer!; 11:27 AM
Unknown said...: Dear Russell.

About the tithing you mentioned in your comment;
God also told the Jews not to eat pork (Deut 14:8), do you also recommend to other Christians not to eat pork? Do you eat pork? If I apply your reasoning to Christian life today, most people will go to "hell" where they will be tortured for eternity.

God also gave the Jews many other laws which they were to obey, do you also teach these laws to fellow Christians? Why not? Do you follow all of them yourself? Why not? Why just tithing?

I am a gentile (non-Jew). Why did Paul not once in any of his letters that he wrote to the gentile churches, explain the importance of tithing to them? If God can only bless you when you tithe, why did Paul not share this great wisdom with the rest of the world (gentiles)?

You should read the letter written to the Galatians. There Paul explains the role that the law played in God's plan.

I truly believe that God loves a cheerful giver (2Cor 9:7), and that we should give what we can, but when you teach believers that they should tithe because it is scriptural, you are a liar!

I have no agenda towards you at all, please don't take this comment personally. It is just that I know of so many people who give their tithe because they want to do the right thing while their children don't have food to eat! This is just sickening!

I think we should test everything with the Word of God and not just follow priests, pastors, bishops or other believers blindly. We should start to think!; 11:52 AM
Anonymous said...: I started out by watching a famous tv Baptist minister.I then began to read the Bible for myself.Now this minister was a little different he gave steps to Gods principles.Something that I could chew on.I watched 3 yrs worth of video archives and noticed that each year he does the same sermons. Interesting how he did one on False teaching and it sounded like it could apply to the minister Himself.He would often tell the viewers to find a good church.So I tried to find a good church ,much to my surprise that search came up with alot of questions. Which denomination ? Who is right? Now I no a sales pitch when I hear one and strangely thats what I got when I went to find a good church.Also when the church wanted us to become members the part of signing up???????Really I need to sign up?I need to say I believe what this denominations believes?How do they know they are right?How can I sign something that says I believe what they believe and be honest signing it? This very problem reminds me of Jesus being accused of removing the demon and being from the (Devil)Dividing the house it becomes weak and cannot stand.Sounds like that works both ways.The contradiction of man is the problem.(Easter) service did it for me.When the church supports the name Easter and all the other pagan Holidays its too much for me .I will trust Christ.Man seems to be able to make a religion out of everything from a birthday to the Sabbath to being dunked in water to dancing with snakes eating cracker and grape juice ashes on my forehead really the list goes on and on .You know when something doesn't pass the smell test.When you leave church and you know they are talking about you or when the church needs you to give tithing plus offering plus plus plus.I was told at church I could sign up for a class to find out my spirtual gift to help the church, for 15.00 dollars.(really) They want to charge me to find out how I can help them? The baseball leagues and basketball leagues all these worldly things they embrace thought we were to be in the world of the world? I could go on and on.I truly thank God that I wont be caught up in the church--- Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be, reasonably or unreasonably, considered strange.[1] The term originally denoted a system of ritual practices)I will stick to trusting Christ as the teacher when he tells us he will write it on our hearts and minds.Sorry to disappoint you folks Ray hasn't told anyone to turn from Christ and you people are flipping out.It seems to me that people have faith in faith ,not in God.For all you church going folks out there name the 2 times a birthday is celebrated in the Bible?And what happened on the 2 birthdays? The reason for the season.These things too go on and on.

Thanks Ray for showing the Hypocrisy; 8:26 AM
josborne1 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12:33 PM
josborne1 said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12:34 PM
Anonymous said...: Boanerges
Quote. "Isn't it odd how even the Devil can quote scripture adroitly. Look at Matthew 4:5 where Satan says to Jesus: "...for it is written..." wow sound familiar Lester!? Yes even the Devil can appear as an angel of light can't he (2 Cor. 11:14)?" End quote
Doesn’t anyone read the bible anymore? First, Go back and read 2 Cor 11:14 again. And instead of rewriting the scriptures, write it the way it reads and not the way you would like it to read in order to fit your argument.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself IS transformed into an angel of light.
SATAN IS (WILL BE) TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. AFTER HIS WORK IS COMPLETE AND HE IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND PURIFIED (Revelation 20). All God fearing believers (Sons of Levi) will be purified. (Malachi 3:3). Believe me when I say that Satan fears God.
Now read the whole chapter of 2 Corinthians 11 if it is not confusing to you. But just to point out a couple of verses within Paul says,
2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, YE MIGHT WELL BEAR WITH [HIM].
2Cr 11:12-13 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, THEY MAY BE FOUND EVEN AS WE. For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, TRANSFORMING THEIMSELVES INTO THE APOSTALES OF CHRIST.
So why does he say to bear with them? Paul admits he was the chief sinner (1 Tim 1:15). Was he changed? Yes, he was changed by Christ himself.
Now back to the transforming of Satan himself. We are told in Isaiah that there is NO light in him, so how does he transform himself to an angel of light as you have rewrote the scripture to your benefit.
Isa 50:10 Who [is] among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh [in] darkness, and hath NO LIGHT? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.
Many of you have been deceived by the teachings of men for so long that you don’t read the Bible but listen to what others tell you. Satan is no fallen angel. If he were he would be chained in darkness with the rest of the fallen angels. Jesus tells us himself that the devil was a murderer from the beginning. (John 8:44)
The book of Job tells us this
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; HIS HAND HATH FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT.
If you go back and read Isaiah 14 this chapter is talking about a man. Satan is not a man, he is a spirit. READ, READ, READ. This chapter speaks of NIMROD whom YES had it in his heart to take over heaven by constructing a tower to the heavens. He had heaven in his heart.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this THE MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Go and read Genesis chapter 11. This MAN did cause the earth to tremble and shake because of his actions and what his heart was set on, God made the earth tremble and shake to knock down the tower they had built.
For those who think that Satan is standing behind some pulpit somewhere, really have a rude awakening. Exactly who has the Devil lied to? (John 8:44) Look in the Bible and you clearly see he has lied to no man OR WOMAN. We purely deceive ourselves as Eve did in the garden by changing the words of God as WE DO. Adam was told by God not to eat of it. (Gen 2:17) But you can see what was added.
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, NEITHER SHALL YE TOUCH IT, lest ye die.; 12:34 PM
Anonymous said...: Boanerges
Quote. "Isn't it odd how even the Devil can quote scripture adroitly. Look at Matthew 4:5 where Satan says to Jesus: "...for it is written..." wow sound familiar Lester!? Yes even the Devil can appear as an angel of light can't he (2 Cor. 11:14)?" End quote
Doesn’t anyone read the bible anymore? First, Go back and read 2 Cor 11:14 again. And instead of rewriting the scriptures, write it the way it reads and not the way you would like it to read in order to fit your argument.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself IS transformed into an angel of light.
SATAN IS (WILL BE) TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. AFTER HIS WORK IS COMPLETE AND HE IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND PURIFIED (Revelation 20). All God fearing believers (Sons of Levi) will be purified. (Malachi 3:3). Believe me when I say that Satan fears God.
Now read the whole chapter of 2 Corinthians 11 if it is not confusing to you. But just to point out a couple of verses within Paul says,
2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, YE MIGHT WELL BEAR WITH [HIM].
2Cr 11:12-13 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, THEY MAY BE FOUND EVEN AS WE. For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, TRANSFORMING THEIMSELVES INTO THE APOSTALES OF CHRIST.
So why does he say to bear with them? Paul admits he was the chief sinner (1 Tim 1:15). Was he changed? Yes, he was changed by Christ himself.
Now back to the transforming of Satan himself. We are told in Isaiah that there is NO light in him, so how does he transform himself to an angel of light as you have rewrote the scripture to your benefit.
Isa 50:10 Who [is] among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh [in] darkness, and hath NO LIGHT? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.
Many of you have been deceived by the teachings of men for so long that you don’t read the Bible but listen to what others tell you. Satan is no fallen angel. If he were he would be chained in darkness with the rest of the fallen angels. Jesus tells us himself that the devil was a murderer from the beginning. (John 8:44)
The book of Job tells us this
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; HIS HAND HATH FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT.
If you go back and read Isaiah 14 this chapter is talking about a man. Satan is not a man, he is a spirit. READ, READ, READ. This chapter speaks of NIMROD whom YES had it in his heart to take over heaven by constructing a tower to the heavens. He had heaven in his heart.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this THE MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Go and read Genesis chapter 11. This MAN did cause the earth to tremble and shake because of his actions and what his heart was set on, God made the earth tremble and shake to knock down the tower they had built.
For those who think that Satan is standing behind some pulpit somewhere, really have a rude awakening. Exactly who has the Devil lied to? (John 8:44) Look in the Bible and you clearly see he has lied to no man OR WOMAN. We purely deceive ourselves as Eve did in the garden by changing the words of God as WE DO. Adam was told by God not to eat of it. (Gen 2:17) But you can see what was added.
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, NEITHER SHALL YE TOUCH IT, lest ye die.; 12:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Boanerges
Quote. "Isn't it odd how even the Devil can quote scripture adroitly. Look at Matthew 4:5 where Satan says to Jesus: "...for it is written..." wow sound familiar Lester!? Yes even the Devil can appear as an angel of light can't he (2 Cor. 11:14)?" End quote
Doesn’t anyone read the bible anymore? First, Go back and read 2 Cor 11:14 again. And instead of rewriting the scriptures, write it the way it reads and not the way you would like it to read in order to fit your argument.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself IS transformed into an angel of light.
SATAN IS (WILL BE) TRANSFORMED INTO AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. AFTER HIS WORK IS COMPLETE AND HE IS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE AND PURIFIED (Revelation 20). All God fearing believers (Sons of Levi) will be purified. (Malachi 3:3). Believe me when I say that Satan fears God.
Now read the whole chapter of 2 Corinthians 11 if it is not confusing to you. But just to point out a couple of verses within Paul says,
2Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, YE MIGHT WELL BEAR WITH [HIM].
2Cr 11:12-13 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, THEY MAY BE FOUND EVEN AS WE. For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, TRANSFORMING THEIMSELVES INTO THE APOSTALES OF CHRIST.
So why does he say to bear with them? Paul admits he was the chief sinner (1 Tim 1:15). Was he changed? Yes, he was changed by Christ himself.
Now back to the transforming of Satan himself. We are told in Isaiah that there is NO light in him, so how does he transform himself to an angel of light as you have rewrote the scripture to your benefit.
Isa 50:10 Who [is] among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh [in] darkness, and hath NO LIGHT? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.
Many of you have been deceived by the teachings of men for so long that you don’t read the Bible but listen to what others tell you. Satan is no fallen angel. If he were he would be chained in darkness with the rest of the fallen angels. Jesus tells us himself that the devil was a murderer from the beginning. (John 8:44)
The book of Job tells us this
Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; HIS HAND HATH FORMED THE CROOKED SERPENT.
If you go back and read Isaiah 14 this chapter is talking about a man. Satan is not a man, he is a spirit. READ, READ, READ. This chapter speaks of NIMROD whom YES had it in his heart to take over heaven by constructing a tower to the heavens. He had heaven in his heart.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this THE MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Go and read Genesis chapter 11. This MAN did cause the earth to tremble and shake because of his actions and what his heart was set on, God made the earth tremble and shake to knock down the tower they had built.
For those who think that Satan is standing behind some pulpit somewhere, really have a rude awakening. Exactly who has the Devil lied to? (John 8:44) Look in the Bible and you clearly see he has lied to no man OR WOMAN. We purely deceive ourselves as Eve did in the garden by changing the words of God as WE DO. Adam was told by God not to eat of it. (Gen 2:17) But you can see what was added.
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, NEITHER SHALL YE TOUCH IT, lest ye die.; 12:35 PM
Anonymous said...: I always ask myself this question: When a man is very wealthy or has [political] power and there are people suffering around him - why is it that people condemn that man for his inaction or unwillingness to part with a piece of his fortune to safe those innocent people? Why dont we say that he works in mysterious ways or that he is allowing free will to reign. My assertion is this: I would NEVER worship someone who had the power to stop human suffering [take the example of the christian boy who has no immune system in his body - or the baby that is born with aids.] - What honest and true justification can there be for someone who has "unlimited" power and fails to use it for good.; 3:58 AM
Anonymous said...: If your translation about hell is the true interpretation, have you ever had your own translation from the original language, to contradict those bible scholars who translated the original language such as; KJV, NKJV, ASV, NASB, ESV, NIV and so many translations? And if so how can we know who among you are the true interpreter of the Word of God? What is your proof that you are the one who is telling the truth? If your allegation that hell is a hoax, because you got your answer in the Greek Lexicon or Strong and any Bible Dictionary where you got the meaning of hades, and make a teaching that Hell is not a place of torment or eternal punishment making all the translators as false and you're the true and authorize person to have the true meaning of Hell, then even those men of God like; Martin Luther, John Wesley, Charles Spurgeon and many more are false? Have you authored a Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek Dictionary? Then if not, you still get your meaning from another resources, meaning that your interpretation is still subject to errors. If you have no Hell where will Satan and his angels be? And what is your interpretation to Matthew 25:41, & 46, also Revelation 20:10.; 3:24 AM
Anonymous said...: So if we all get to go to heaven, than why on earth did Jesus have to suffer and die on a Roman cross, for that matter, why did he have to be born through the Virgin Mary, why did he have to experience a total separation from the Father. You know, it's so amazing how people tend to create God in their own image! Jesus warned us of people like this, in the end, he'll say, I never knew you, depart from me......but, but but, didn't we, etc etc!!!; 9:46 PM
Anonymous said...: You have to be careful what you read from another people's websites and follow them like they're holier and has all the answers. L. Ray Smith is just another man. Even Satan knows the scriptures by heart and uses scriptures to manipulate. The thing is. they can use scriptures to back up their claim so does everyone else in other churches does with their own perspective.Why do you think there's many branches of churches out there? They use the scriptures to back up their claims.
God will anoint it to you and it is between you and God. Not L. Ray Smith. Even though he is anointed by God and It is between him and God alone. The anointing from God that he gives you will help reveal the truth to you, not man to teach you. The scriptures says: 1 John 2:27 "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." It is true that L. Ray Smith will not allow anyone to edify one another except to discuss Ray's truth on his forum only. L.Ray Smith only lets you see what he wants you to see. YOu will lose if you try to fight with him. Its like fighitng wtih other churches and you will still lose because they are the holder of their faith. It's the same thing. Follow no man even if he makes excellent points. Just do your own research and God will anoint you with the truth his way. Ray himself says he doesn't go to the forum but really, he does. it is his website and forum and who can resist not looking lol. I just feel he does have the wisdom to discern scriptures and I appreciate his wisdom of the scriptures. But I wiill follow no man like they're holier than you and has all the answers. Ray acts as if he is right and all others are wrong and refuses edification on his forum in case there's new information. We learn all the time. that's a couple red flags. Have to be careful. It does make sense that religion abuses the relationship that we could have had with Jesus and He will find a way to fix that for all of humanity. God gives us logic after all to discern what is God's and what is man's. Don't lose heart just because l Ray Smith decides to be an ass**le with people who disagree with him. It's on him. He just likes to pick on people and he enjoys that immensely. Don't satifisy him with that.; 7:46 AM
Anonymous said...: Linda, you're a flaming idiot get out of the world....READ WHAT the WORD SAYS.; 6:49 PM
Anonymous said...: I had never heard of L Ray Smith until about an hour ago when I stumbled across his page about Bill Wiese's book 23 Minutes in Hell. I began to read his page about what is wrong with Mr. Wiese's book. Fine. I'm not sure I believe Wiese's story either.

However, a huge red flag went up immediately about L Ray Smith. Why? Not because of what he was saying as much as the tone in which he did it.

It is sarcastic, nasty, punitive, manipulative and cold hearted.

Forget what points he is trying to make. Anyone who reverts to such tactics to posit a thought is out in my view. Anger, blame, harshness toward your fellow man. I am always cautious of people like this. Why? Because rants are based in personal conflict rather than scholarly knowledge.

There is no way to objectively read a mess like that. It is way, way too skewed to use as food for thought.

Be assured. I will never read his writings again. Why? Because I've known preachers just like this. And because the Bible says to guard your heart. And not to associate with an angry man lest you become like him.

You may consider this a word to the wise.; 8:44 PM
William Zabel said...: I keep hearing people say that Rya uses Encyclopedia Britannica, that he trivializes Jesus's death on the cross.

He does not do any of those things but actually glorifies his death on the cross.

think of it this way. God is in control of the whole universe, he created, created us. Yet according to many in Christendom, he can not control his own creation, there most of humanity will go to hell and then at a later date when the contractor gets done building the Lake of Fire, he will transfer all unrepentant sinners to this Lake of Fire?

My God in heaven above, even a bankrupt company like GM can get better numbers than that with fallible men on an assembly line.

Is God not perfect? If so how come he seems to me to be such a loser that he can not save most of humanity?

What if you people had a flood where you were living and you tried your best but could not save all your children from drowning? Would you not be distressed?

Yet we are to believe that God created mankind knowing full well that most could not be saved.

Even fallible humans can do better than that on our worst day, but God can't? Or is there hidden secrets that we are just now learning?

We are humans, we fail, God does not.

It is traditional Christianity they makes God out to be some Generation X loser pot head. L Ray shows you God's perfect will which until recent years was only known to a few throughout history.

By the way even Native North Americans who you Christians hate anyway know about this Lake of Fire and what it does. They call it the great purge and when you ask them what it means, they will tell you that beast that inhabits will be taken out of him. Of course each tribe has their idea of the entity that will do this and none of them call him God, but they know what this Lake of Fire is.

China is the same way, people there who are considered spiritualists talk about a great awakening where evil men are stripped of the weight of their evil after facing everything that they have ever done.

We think that just because we live in the west and have access to the Internet and a Strong's Concordance that we know everything. This is why Christianity is now hated in most parts of the world.

When you tell someone that their child is now in Hell because he/she never heard of Jesus before they died of starvation, etc, and you wonder why these people pick an AK-47 and blow away Christians right and left. Trust me I don't feel a bit sorry for those that tell parents that and I have heard it with my own ears as pastors lay this trip on people in Africa, and other countries. I was in Bosnia helping the Red Cross back in the 90's when I heard a loud mouth pastor telling people this in a village. There children died without knowing Christ so therefore they were being barbecued in Hell. The hate in their eyes after hearing that scared me to death.

Those are not countries you go into and pull that crap. That might work on gullible westerners, but not these people.

I also studied Egyptology and can tell you that if you ever visit Egypt (Which nobody will ever be able to again) and read texts from there, you will find that Hell originated from the Egyptian Book of the Dead and that when Jews were finally released from their captivity in Egypt they brought these myths with them.

Just like you can take the boy out of the country, but not the country out of the boy, neither can you take Egypt out of the Jew, though they have been out of Egypt for a long time.; 8:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Truth and the pursuit of Truth alone gives meaning and purpose to life...Truth is God ..God is truth.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.; 1:05 PM
Unknown said...: act's 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;( so if he gives us all things then were is this hell that people preach? The closest to this hell is wear we live know)
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth( the division's across the world are but a blasphemy), and hath determined the times before appointed( Free will many churches speak as though they made the world), and the bounds of their habitation;What Ray smith has done for me is watered the seed with in me .; 8:28 AM
Anonymous said...: LOL i think we all know who won this battle! brutal! thank God for ray l smith and for all of yous. Keep making it plain for which way to go spiritually.; 2:49 PM
dddd said...: Good news to all . is it no.then its a lie.yes then it is true.Jesus the savior of all men.savior means save.does he save all men.no then it a lie.yes then it true.God cannot lie. the whole world is in the wicked one the lie.come into the truth love believes all means all; 5:34 PM

Wisdom, Common Sense & Outright Lies

Friday, August 05, 2005

L. Ray Smith - Exposing Those Who Contradict - A few Bible Truths for a friday morning

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